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	<title>Comments on: A travesty</title>
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	<description>A quick-witted (and short-attention-spanned) look at life, work, mothering and everything else</description>
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		<title>By: Krista</title>
		<link>http://www.missylaneous.com/2010/06/09/a-travesty/comment-page-1/#comment-349</link>
		<dc:creator>Krista</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jun 2010 01:44:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.missylaneous.com/?p=658#comment-349</guid>
		<description>Jake - I think we can agree to disagree altho I am not sure there is actually much disagreement. I went to Catholic HS if that gives you a glint of anything I beleive about the catholic church - not much needless tos ay.  

 I beleive that there probably is a bigger story that I was unaware of and for that, I truly feel for Jason and the various friends/family that as you say were excluded.  Yes, that truly does suck.  My jumping in/on was not meant to be a slight especially not to Jason, who again I beleive is truly responsible for ALOT if not MOST of Ralph&#039;s happiness, and yes I am sorry that Ralph chose not to share that part of his life with me/us.  However, I didnot/do not care - his happiness meant more to me...

With that being said, I can agree that it probably wasn&#039;t the services that many wouldn&#039;t have wanted - it was services noentheless and again, that is the travesty of it.  RIP Ralph - brings us together in life and in death.

I honestly hope that I get to hang with you all some day and we can share the memories.  I for one would like that....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jake &#8211; I think we can agree to disagree altho I am not sure there is actually much disagreement. I went to Catholic HS if that gives you a glint of anything I beleive about the catholic church &#8211; not much needless tos ay.  </p>
<p> I beleive that there probably is a bigger story that I was unaware of and for that, I truly feel for Jason and the various friends/family that as you say were excluded.  Yes, that truly does suck.  My jumping in/on was not meant to be a slight especially not to Jason, who again I beleive is truly responsible for ALOT if not MOST of Ralph&#8217;s happiness, and yes I am sorry that Ralph chose not to share that part of his life with me/us.  However, I didnot/do not care &#8211; his happiness meant more to me&#8230;</p>
<p>With that being said, I can agree that it probably wasn&#8217;t the services that many wouldn&#8217;t have wanted &#8211; it was services noentheless and again, that is the travesty of it.  RIP Ralph &#8211; brings us together in life and in death.</p>
<p>I honestly hope that I get to hang with you all some day and we can share the memories.  I for one would like that&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://www.missylaneous.com/2010/06/09/a-travesty/comment-page-1/#comment-348</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jun 2010 14:42:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.missylaneous.com/?p=658#comment-348</guid>
		<description>I am glad you agreed with the criticism (though you later state you are hurt by the &quot;mockery&quot;, of which there was truthfully none, so I am not completely sure which way you lean on the original post).  To answer your question, *yes*, whomever reads the post, that was the message that was meant to be conveyed.  I did and do not want for this to become a flame war, either (no pun intended!).  However, you leveled criticism that I and numerous others felt was unfair, uninformed and misdirected and required a response.

You critiqued a friend, the blog author, and I have a right to defend my friends, especially those as measured, level-headed and fair as the author.  You further criticized the way in which this was handled.  As the method (Facebook posting) was agreed-upon by people very close to the deceased, I felt the decision was made by people closer to the situation than you, and that your concern for those methods might be tempered if you actually knew the whole story.

Unfortunately, the family with which you spoke did not hold enough sway in decisions about the funeral proceedings to prevent a whole swath of Ralph&#039;s life, friends and relationships from being ignored and excluded.  Those who *did* make the decisions ensured that the final memory we have of Ralph&#039;s life will forever be marred by their ignorance and intolerance.

The services were not mocked, they were criticized for being offensive and exclusionary.  Some might disagree with that assessment, but again, I&#039;m fairly confident that a majority of those in attendance ... practicing Catholics and &quot;non-practicing-Catholics&quot; alike ... would agree.

Knowing at least one of Ralph&#039;s brothers and his feelings on the topic, I know he was also upset by the handling of the funeral.  Were I one of Ralph&#039;s brothers and was not aware of this part of his life previously, but found out this way, I would like to think that I, too, would have been furious that so large a part of my brother&#039;s life was belittled and ignored.  I might have been shocked and hurt to have been left out of a major part of his life while he was alive, as you certainly and understandably seem to be, but a funeral is no place to further entrench divisions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am glad you agreed with the criticism (though you later state you are hurt by the &#8220;mockery&#8221;, of which there was truthfully none, so I am not completely sure which way you lean on the original post).  To answer your question, *yes*, whomever reads the post, that was the message that was meant to be conveyed.  I did and do not want for this to become a flame war, either (no pun intended!).  However, you leveled criticism that I and numerous others felt was unfair, uninformed and misdirected and required a response.</p>
<p>You critiqued a friend, the blog author, and I have a right to defend my friends, especially those as measured, level-headed and fair as the author.  You further criticized the way in which this was handled.  As the method (Facebook posting) was agreed-upon by people very close to the deceased, I felt the decision was made by people closer to the situation than you, and that your concern for those methods might be tempered if you actually knew the whole story.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, the family with which you spoke did not hold enough sway in decisions about the funeral proceedings to prevent a whole swath of Ralph&#8217;s life, friends and relationships from being ignored and excluded.  Those who *did* make the decisions ensured that the final memory we have of Ralph&#8217;s life will forever be marred by their ignorance and intolerance.</p>
<p>The services were not mocked, they were criticized for being offensive and exclusionary.  Some might disagree with that assessment, but again, I&#8217;m fairly confident that a majority of those in attendance &#8230; practicing Catholics and &#8220;non-practicing-Catholics&#8221; alike &#8230; would agree.</p>
<p>Knowing at least one of Ralph&#8217;s brothers and his feelings on the topic, I know he was also upset by the handling of the funeral.  Were I one of Ralph&#8217;s brothers and was not aware of this part of his life previously, but found out this way, I would like to think that I, too, would have been furious that so large a part of my brother&#8217;s life was belittled and ignored.  I might have been shocked and hurt to have been left out of a major part of his life while he was alive, as you certainly and understandably seem to be, but a funeral is no place to further entrench divisions.</p>
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		<title>By: krista</title>
		<link>http://www.missylaneous.com/2010/06/09/a-travesty/comment-page-1/#comment-347</link>
		<dc:creator>krista</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jun 2010 05:31:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.missylaneous.com/?p=658#comment-347</guid>
		<description>First if u re-read my post-i wholly agreed with the catholic church part as indicated. 
Second, my point being if Ralph&#039;s brothers or sister or nephews etc read the original post is it truly the messgae that wanted to be conveyed?

Third, the author of the post kindly &amp; whole heartedly sent me an email of which I greatly appreciate &amp; respect. It was not intended to become a pissing contest &amp; surely she saw that. U Jake didn&#039;t. 

There is no need to stick up for anyone or defend anyone-a young man is dead-that is the point. 
Also, if u re-read my post I loved Ralph &amp; he was a central part of my life for a very long time &amp; while I cd accept whatever sexual orientation he was &amp; told him on many occasions, he was not forth coming. I reached out to Jason bc I put it together. So without placing blame on the family who just lost their son not accepting his lifestyle perhaps Ralph didn&#039;t allow them to just as he did not allow me or my ex husband too &amp; we were once the closest best friends. The family that I talked to knew jason &amp; recognized their relationship. Some of the mourners did not. Is it more important to slander the way it was done, not correct in the eyes of many, or join together to remember Ralph however that ay have been?

My singular point being is that we lost a good one &amp; to mock the services etc is hurtful, even if I was only a friend. 

How wd u feel if u were his brother and read that? 

Again the travesty is that Ralph is gone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First if u re-read my post-i wholly agreed with the catholic church part as indicated.<br />
Second, my point being if Ralph&#8217;s brothers or sister or nephews etc read the original post is it truly the messgae that wanted to be conveyed?</p>
<p>Third, the author of the post kindly &amp; whole heartedly sent me an email of which I greatly appreciate &amp; respect. It was not intended to become a pissing contest &amp; surely she saw that. U Jake didn&#8217;t. </p>
<p>There is no need to stick up for anyone or defend anyone-a young man is dead-that is the point.<br />
Also, if u re-read my post I loved Ralph &amp; he was a central part of my life for a very long time &amp; while I cd accept whatever sexual orientation he was &amp; told him on many occasions, he was not forth coming. I reached out to Jason bc I put it together. So without placing blame on the family who just lost their son not accepting his lifestyle perhaps Ralph didn&#8217;t allow them to just as he did not allow me or my ex husband too &amp; we were once the closest best friends. The family that I talked to knew jason &amp; recognized their relationship. Some of the mourners did not. Is it more important to slander the way it was done, not correct in the eyes of many, or join together to remember Ralph however that ay have been?</p>
<p>My singular point being is that we lost a good one &amp; to mock the services etc is hurtful, even if I was only a friend. </p>
<p>How wd u feel if u were his brother and read that? </p>
<p>Again the travesty is that Ralph is gone.</p>
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		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://www.missylaneous.com/2010/06/09/a-travesty/comment-page-1/#comment-346</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jun 2010 23:08:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.missylaneous.com/?p=658#comment-346</guid>
		<description>@Krista,

To start, this blog was posted on Facebook with the full knowledge and permission of the deceased&#039;s partner.  That, in and of itself, counters most of your opposition to it.  What is there to be shocked about?  The blog is more in line with what *I* knew of the deceased&#039;s beliefs on life than that mockery of a funeral could ever hope to be!  Besides, blogs are INHERENTLY editorial in nature, so is there really a better place for an opinion piece like the author&#039;s than this?

To further counter your argument, this priest knew the deceased, from what many of us were led to believe.  Additionally, have you EVER heard a Catholic priest say that only &quot;practicing Catholics who go to church every Sunday&quot; will be given the honor of communion, and all others shall remain seated?  No Catholic with whom I have spoken (and I&#039;ve queried many) has EVER heard such an exclusionary statement regarding communion.  The ONLY conclusion anyone can draw is the exclusion was intentional, either on the part of the priest, on behalf of the family or both.  In either case, it is regrettable at best and highly offensive to Catholics and non-Catholics alike at worst.  Had I thought of it at the time, we should have ALL taken communion (and I&#039;m Jewish!!) to display our solidarity with the deceased and our opposition to the appalling way in which the whole thing was being handled.

With that in mind, *YES*, the deceased&#039;s sexual orientation does really matter.  The funeral ceremony - regardless of religion - is supposed to offer closure, a time for family (ALL family) and friends (ALL friends) to pay their respects to the deceased and the deceased&#039;s loved ones.  In this case, the funeral catered to only part of the family (the deceased&#039;s partner was excluded entirely) and did NOT truly celebrate the deceased&#039;s life because SO MUCH of that life, centering around his sexual orientation, was ignored by priest and family alike.  The funeral should ALSO be carried out to the wishes of the deceased, and I cannot IMAGINE he would have wanted this.

At the end, this was WITHOUT QUESTION the appropriate place for the blog post, unless you feel your opinion supercedes that of the partner.   Please also note that this writer is the deceased partner&#039;s brother-in-law ... in essence, a member of his family that was almost wholly ignored.  Regardless of the blog author&#039;s relationship with the deceased, I have EVERY right to pass judgement in defense of myself, my wife, my brother-in-law and every other person who was offended at the proceedings.  I can safely say we far outnumbered those who thought it was handled correctly, and I am unflinchingly CERTAIN the deceased would have agreed with both me and the blog author.

Yes, the biggest travesty was the loss of a man so young.  However, the ignorance and intolerance displayed were SO blatant and offensive as to nearly (if not completely) replace the deceased as the focus of the ceremony.  There&#039;s NO excuse for that, and railing against ignorance and intolerance is NEVER inappropriate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Krista,</p>
<p>To start, this blog was posted on Facebook with the full knowledge and permission of the deceased&#8217;s partner.  That, in and of itself, counters most of your opposition to it.  What is there to be shocked about?  The blog is more in line with what *I* knew of the deceased&#8217;s beliefs on life than that mockery of a funeral could ever hope to be!  Besides, blogs are INHERENTLY editorial in nature, so is there really a better place for an opinion piece like the author&#8217;s than this?</p>
<p>To further counter your argument, this priest knew the deceased, from what many of us were led to believe.  Additionally, have you EVER heard a Catholic priest say that only &#8220;practicing Catholics who go to church every Sunday&#8221; will be given the honor of communion, and all others shall remain seated?  No Catholic with whom I have spoken (and I&#8217;ve queried many) has EVER heard such an exclusionary statement regarding communion.  The ONLY conclusion anyone can draw is the exclusion was intentional, either on the part of the priest, on behalf of the family or both.  In either case, it is regrettable at best and highly offensive to Catholics and non-Catholics alike at worst.  Had I thought of it at the time, we should have ALL taken communion (and I&#8217;m Jewish!!) to display our solidarity with the deceased and our opposition to the appalling way in which the whole thing was being handled.</p>
<p>With that in mind, *YES*, the deceased&#8217;s sexual orientation does really matter.  The funeral ceremony &#8211; regardless of religion &#8211; is supposed to offer closure, a time for family (ALL family) and friends (ALL friends) to pay their respects to the deceased and the deceased&#8217;s loved ones.  In this case, the funeral catered to only part of the family (the deceased&#8217;s partner was excluded entirely) and did NOT truly celebrate the deceased&#8217;s life because SO MUCH of that life, centering around his sexual orientation, was ignored by priest and family alike.  The funeral should ALSO be carried out to the wishes of the deceased, and I cannot IMAGINE he would have wanted this.</p>
<p>At the end, this was WITHOUT QUESTION the appropriate place for the blog post, unless you feel your opinion supercedes that of the partner.   Please also note that this writer is the deceased partner&#8217;s brother-in-law &#8230; in essence, a member of his family that was almost wholly ignored.  Regardless of the blog author&#8217;s relationship with the deceased, I have EVERY right to pass judgement in defense of myself, my wife, my brother-in-law and every other person who was offended at the proceedings.  I can safely say we far outnumbered those who thought it was handled correctly, and I am unflinchingly CERTAIN the deceased would have agreed with both me and the blog author.</p>
<p>Yes, the biggest travesty was the loss of a man so young.  However, the ignorance and intolerance displayed were SO blatant and offensive as to nearly (if not completely) replace the deceased as the focus of the ceremony.  There&#8217;s NO excuse for that, and railing against ignorance and intolerance is NEVER inappropriate.</p>
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		<title>By: Krista</title>
		<link>http://www.missylaneous.com/2010/06/09/a-travesty/comment-page-1/#comment-345</link>
		<dc:creator>Krista</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jun 2010 16:33:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.missylaneous.com/?p=658#comment-345</guid>
		<description>I originally opened this link because I thought that perhaps this was a tribute to the deceased, it being a travesty in and of itself.  Now that I have read this, I am shocked, to say the least, at it (despite the Catholic church rants being accurate).  However, I beleive that if this was truly what you wanted to convey there was a better forum, not made public on the partner&#039;s page for all to see, including family and friends of the deceased.

First, if your complaints about the church are important to you perhaps write a letter to that church expressing your dismay? Again, being a non practicing Catholic I agree with what you have stated regarding the church and the priests, etc.  Being a Catholic as you indicated, I am sure you can also understand/appreciate that it is a formality for any Christian to have the mass, to have the priest likely not know the deceased, etc.  I do not think it was an intentional personal affront to anyone - perhaps instead the family is dealing with the tragedy of burying their young, vibrant, happy, son/brother/uncle? I do not think that you take this into account.

As for the deceased being gay/out of the closet/in the closet - does it really matter? A 37 year old man is dead - suddenly, tragically - loved by so many! Isn&#039;t that the point? I was a very close friend of his, he was going to be the best man at my wedding - he distanced himself from myself and my husband.  We welcomed the fact that at the time (and this was 2004-2005 so no he didn&#039;t come out of the closet after HS) he was happy and if he was gay we didn&#039;t care - we told him over and over and over again.  He didn&#039;t reach out to us and we are not alone, there are several of our friends he did the same too.  Thank god for facebook otherwise we would not have reconnected and even with the reconnection - I put it together myself that JC was his partner, he never told me.  I reached out to JC and I am now glad that he too can be a friend and we can remember the deceased together. I attribute much of the deceased happiness to JC.

I guess my point is that this is first an inappropriate place for this and two, as you note, you don&#039;t know the deceased or his family very well - therefore, perhaps you shouldn&#039;t be passing judgment on his services.  And again the true travesty of it all is that a young man who touched so many lives and was loved by so many near and far in so many different circumstances is suddenly gone.  That is the true travesty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I originally opened this link because I thought that perhaps this was a tribute to the deceased, it being a travesty in and of itself.  Now that I have read this, I am shocked, to say the least, at it (despite the Catholic church rants being accurate).  However, I beleive that if this was truly what you wanted to convey there was a better forum, not made public on the partner&#8217;s page for all to see, including family and friends of the deceased.</p>
<p>First, if your complaints about the church are important to you perhaps write a letter to that church expressing your dismay? Again, being a non practicing Catholic I agree with what you have stated regarding the church and the priests, etc.  Being a Catholic as you indicated, I am sure you can also understand/appreciate that it is a formality for any Christian to have the mass, to have the priest likely not know the deceased, etc.  I do not think it was an intentional personal affront to anyone &#8211; perhaps instead the family is dealing with the tragedy of burying their young, vibrant, happy, son/brother/uncle? I do not think that you take this into account.</p>
<p>As for the deceased being gay/out of the closet/in the closet &#8211; does it really matter? A 37 year old man is dead &#8211; suddenly, tragically &#8211; loved by so many! Isn&#8217;t that the point? I was a very close friend of his, he was going to be the best man at my wedding &#8211; he distanced himself from myself and my husband.  We welcomed the fact that at the time (and this was 2004-2005 so no he didn&#8217;t come out of the closet after HS) he was happy and if he was gay we didn&#8217;t care &#8211; we told him over and over and over again.  He didn&#8217;t reach out to us and we are not alone, there are several of our friends he did the same too.  Thank god for facebook otherwise we would not have reconnected and even with the reconnection &#8211; I put it together myself that JC was his partner, he never told me.  I reached out to JC and I am now glad that he too can be a friend and we can remember the deceased together. I attribute much of the deceased happiness to JC.</p>
<p>I guess my point is that this is first an inappropriate place for this and two, as you note, you don&#8217;t know the deceased or his family very well &#8211; therefore, perhaps you shouldn&#8217;t be passing judgment on his services.  And again the true travesty of it all is that a young man who touched so many lives and was loved by so many near and far in so many different circumstances is suddenly gone.  That is the true travesty.</p>
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		<title>By: Tricia</title>
		<link>http://www.missylaneous.com/2010/06/09/a-travesty/comment-page-1/#comment-343</link>
		<dc:creator>Tricia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jun 2010 17:24:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.missylaneous.com/?p=658#comment-343</guid>
		<description>Horrifying.  First of all, it was the PARTNER&#039;s place to make funeral arrangements, but such things are so frequently forgotten when the deceased is (loud whisper) gay, or maybe such things are a huge consideration in the minds of bigots trying their hardest to deny gay people the same rights as heterosexuals, I wouldn&#039;t know.  Anyway, it is terrible to see this happen.  The more funerals I attend, the more I understand how they should reflect who the deceased was.  It eases the grieving process for the mourners who knew him/her.  
That priest&#039;s behavior isn&#039;t doing the church any favors.  I believe at one funeral or wedding or something I went to, the priest basically stated that everyone was welcome to come up, but if you did not feel comfortable receiving the Eucharist, you could simply clasp your hands in front of you and receive a blessing.  I also appreciate it when I go to receive Communion with Eliza and the priest blesses her rather than ignoring her.  
I am sorry about your friend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Horrifying.  First of all, it was the PARTNER&#8217;s place to make funeral arrangements, but such things are so frequently forgotten when the deceased is (loud whisper) gay, or maybe such things are a huge consideration in the minds of bigots trying their hardest to deny gay people the same rights as heterosexuals, I wouldn&#8217;t know.  Anyway, it is terrible to see this happen.  The more funerals I attend, the more I understand how they should reflect who the deceased was.  It eases the grieving process for the mourners who knew him/her.<br />
That priest&#8217;s behavior isn&#8217;t doing the church any favors.  I believe at one funeral or wedding or something I went to, the priest basically stated that everyone was welcome to come up, but if you did not feel comfortable receiving the Eucharist, you could simply clasp your hands in front of you and receive a blessing.  I also appreciate it when I go to receive Communion with Eliza and the priest blesses her rather than ignoring her.<br />
I am sorry about your friend.</p>
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		<title>By: Jasmine</title>
		<link>http://www.missylaneous.com/2010/06/09/a-travesty/comment-page-1/#comment-342</link>
		<dc:creator>Jasmine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jun 2010 17:04:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.missylaneous.com/?p=658#comment-342</guid>
		<description>We visited a church once that asked all non-practicing Christians to leave the sanctuary during communion. Way to spread the gospel to Christ-seeking visitors! A few people wandered out in awkward silence, the doors were closed, and then the organ music started and communion began. I was utterly stunned, and obviously never went back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We visited a church once that asked all non-practicing Christians to leave the sanctuary during communion. Way to spread the gospel to Christ-seeking visitors! A few people wandered out in awkward silence, the doors were closed, and then the organ music started and communion began. I was utterly stunned, and obviously never went back.</p>
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